Stuffed animals in the oven?

I had a good chat via email with a fellow fan and they sent me some additional tips so I thought I'd make a separate page for this one ”scene” too because, as you can read on the Can't drive? -page, there seems to be public information and public appearances used as inspiration for Jessicka's stories. Let's see.


Jessicka stated the following:

When I came home late one night, he put one of the stuffed animals he bought me into the burning oven in the kitchen.


As I stated on the Storytelling page, this is pretty much peak Jack Off Jill imagery. A burning toy, it has that ”he ruined my innocence” sort of a tone to it, to support the ”I didn't know any better, I had no experience of healthy relationships, I was so young” sort of a narrative. Jack Off Jill's aesthetic very much revolved around the idea of childhood trauma and there are ruined and broken dolls in music videos and promo pictures. 


Another reason why I found this pretty weird was the fact that it takes a while for an oven to get hot enough to burn a stuffed animal. And if we consider also the fact that this supposedly took place in a time where landline phones were more common, there was most likely no text messages, obviously no social media or whatsapp sort of things, how did Jeordie know when Jessicka was going to be home? Throwing something in the oven would likely be a more spontaneous act done in a moment of rage? So he doesn't know when Jessicka will be home and he just has the oven on high waiting and he's got the stuffed animal ready?

Also, well, if this was ”Pete's apartment” wouldn't Pete be extremely pissed off about ruining his appliances like that? Pete never really actually is involved in anything else except the alleged sexual assault, it's strange that it's said he "always protected" but when an incident is described, Pete is not even really mentioned ever?

And it comes through from several discussions in Hour Of Goon that Jeordie actually really likes cooking. Would he ruin the cooking appliances with melted plastic like that if he was going to be the next one probably needing the oven anyway?

Also what the fuck is a burning oven? Does she specify that it's burning hot or is it some specific type of an oven? I don't know what kind of devices americans have in their homes.

First thing that came to mind for me was that maybe this was once again something that kind of happened but not in the way described and not in the context described. For example, my partner buys me plushies sometimes, he also has a very weird sense of humour. I could definitely imagine him jokingly stuffing a plushie in the microwave or oven for example, while not turning it on (or, well he could probably even turn it on if the setting was a really crazy party), while making some weird noises like a Gremlin. – His favorite movie is Gremlins, watch this scene from it here if you haven't seen it, you can get the point.  He does have this joking ”mischievously evil” side but it's all jokes. Otherwise he's quiet and calm, no one's ever seen him get mad.

I could imagine the same is the case with Jeordie, to me that comes through in some ways that Manson has described him and the friendship they have in interviews through the years.

Manson has stated for example: ”He's like a bad little brother. […] I kind of compared him to a bad disease that you think is gone but it comes back later.” (source)

LHROOH contains a comment along the lines of something like this: ”Twiggy Ramirez, a restless, mischievous brat in the body of a reticent psychopath.” (He describes the whole band in similar ways in this section. But this is very exaggerated but kind of descriptive, he seems calm but has a childish side to him.)

Then we get into the public information part of it.

One fan mentioned the episode of Cribs from 2001 where Jeordie shows a tour of his house; ”There's all those toys all over the stove, I can guarantee you there is 0 cooking going on in that kitchen.” lol true, well one option could be that he put them there for show for the filming but WHO (Who? Who?) keeps toys over the stove like that... Isn't that a fire hazard? Then again I'm like convinced everything will light up in flames the moment I'm not looking lol but anyway. Did Jessicka make this observation too? Here's screenshots of the scene in Cribs.

twiggy ramirez
twiggy ramirez

Then, what else comes to mind is that when discussing the recording sessions of Antichrist Superstar, something interesting comes up. In the Demystifying the Devil documentary, if I remember this correctly, Manson's ex girlfriend Missi says Jeordie melted guitar picks in the microwave as a prank.

Then, a fellow fan emailed me about an interview where this microwave is once again mentioned. This same interview from 1996 seemed to also inspire the ”pet white mice” situation in Jessicka's 2017 story that's on the Can't drive page. Let me repeat, there is a Manson & Twiggy interview from 1996 where letting loose live mice in a tour bus and destroying things in a microwave are both mentioned, and then Jessicka decades later writes a story about stuff she allegedly had happen to her and this story includes very similar anecdotes in subsequent paragraphs.

Alternative Nation, 1997 transcription, filmed 1996:

Toby Amies: You're mean to your co-musicians, aren't you?
Marilyn Manson: No,
Toby Amies: Throwing things at them, hitting them in the head?
Marilyn Manson: No, not at all, they fly,
Twiggy Ramirez: Actually I wouldn't let him write any songs for the new record so I took his four-track and put it in the microwave.
Toby Amies: The drummer's?
Twiggy Ramirez: His too. No, uh, him we set on fire.
Toby Amies: Oh right.
Marilyn Manson: No, the guitarist, he left because creatively he wasn't interested in what we were doing so, uh, we didn't know what we were going to do but we always liked the guitar playing on the first Suede album, you know.

 

Once again, in the full interview the overall tone is very much joking around and at this time Marilyn Manson encouraged the crazy rumours about himself. The ”we set our drummer on fire” for example, - said ex drummer Sara Lee Lucas later stated he was never lit on fire. Manson's destructive stage shows with bandmembers throwing things at each other have in recent discussions been taken out of context as him being an abusive and violent person, even by ex bandmembers who otherwise have a problem with him. I think it's ridiculous, it's part of the show, and for example Jessicka has been seen being violent in her shows too, so keep your double standards in check. (It's also interesting that the ex bandmates who have been successful on their own after their career in Manson never have said anything negative about him, but then the ones that weren't successful all have a problem with him.)

 

well this part from the same interview does fit:

Toby Amies: Erm, is that quite a big joke for you? Do you find it quite funny that people take you so seriously?
Marilyn Manson: Um, sometimes, you know, it depends. The music is very sincere and so are a lot of my ideals, it's just, uh, when people start to sensationalise things, uh, I usually just like to add gas to the fire because most of the time they don't know what they're talking about so you might as well make a fool out of them if they're, you know.

 

The fan that emailed me about this same Alternative Nation interview (aired January 1997) also noted that this part where Jeordie jokes about pixie sticks... (powdered sweet/sour candy in a strawlike wrapper)

Toby Amies: Well we're getting the wind up side, ok, and I've forgotten what I was going to say so we'll not, we'll watch the next video which is going to be,
Marilyn Manson: What is it? Oh, The Pixies.
Toby Amies: What did we decide on? Oh, it's The Pixies.
Marilyn Manson: Monkey's Gone To Heaven.
Twiggy Ramirez: Actually, pixie, uh, pixie sticks and you just open up the top and you pour the sugar out and you cut the other side and you can snort them. It's pretty exciting.
Marilyn Manson: Yeah.
Toby Amies: Yeah. That's logical.
Marilyn Manson: And you can do it at elementary school as well because, you know,
Toby Amies: No, no, you know. You see now you're taking it too far.
Twiggy Ramirez: Plus, it's not illegal.
Toby Amies: No, I know. it's not smart, though, is it? It's a bad habit to get in to.
Marilyn Manson: It's just sugar. Twiggy(with mimes)- Bite one, pour it out.
Marilyn Manson: Pixie sticks,
Toby Amies: Those poor kids won't have any septums left by the time they're older.
Marilyn Manson: Yeah.
Toby Amies: It's The Pixies.

 

Later there's Jessicka interviewed for a JOJ fansite in June 1997 where she makes the same joke:

c: what’s your favorite kind of candy?

j: pixi stix, cause you can snort them and smoke them.

 

I mean well, could be a coincidence. It wasn't exactly uncommon to have this candy/drugs imagery in both bands. But also it could point to the direction that she did watch/listen to the Alternative Nation interview at the time and remembered it while coming up with her statement.

Anyway, the recording sessions of Antichrist Superstar are also widely discussed in LHROOH too and while I mostly ignore the book as it's proven to be partly fictional and not an exact depiction of what happened, it still involves stories that seem to be part of an inspiration for Jessicka. The following excerpt is from the book, once again I only have the finnish edition of the book so I'll have to translate back to the original language and it's not an exact quote:

 

The making process of Antichrist Superstar was developing into new dimensions: Besides the fact that the productivity of our band was at a complete zero, out destructiveness was growing. (…) Daisy's four track recorder would be stuffed into the microwave so that it would be rendered completely useless.

The fourth of July in the studio consisted of getting drunk. Trent and I lit fireworks, stuck them into the microwave and then threw the entire burned mess out on the street.

 

The destructive way that Antichrist Superstar was created is widely known. The band completely trashed their gear and the house they were recording in. This, however, is not a thing that should be taken out of context as a ”Ohh they have a habit of trashing stuff, definitely abusive” because if you do, then you have never listened to music like this enough to understand this and are overlooking what Jessicka herself too was like at these times. Every band trashes stuff. It doesn't mean it happens out of the band.

Actually, a fan I discussed this with had a good comment too; "Jeordie is known for his collections of memorabilia and stuff (he collects Star Wars toys for example), there are photos and videos of his house available online. You don't have collections of things you've kept since you were a child if you have a habit of destroying things in a rage."

 

- True. You know, I had a roommate once who would destroy shit when he was angry. I took the door handle of my room with me when I left the apartment because the door had no lock and I didn't want this person to go in there and trash my pretty big record collection in case they'd be mad about something again.  Whatever, this person did not give a shit about their own or my stuff. A friend of mine forgot his hat over at the apartment and asked if we'd seen it, my roommate had thrown it in the trash and screamed "Well call the cops then if you want a search you fucking idiot!" This roommate had no collections of anything, everything was all over the place, broken and left to rot. Actually knowing someone who acted like Jeordie's described to have acted - no, don't believe Jessicka's stories. Because personal experience. 

Anyway.

It seems yet again that the whole "stuffed animals in the oven" thing was just inspired by public information and stories that were already there. 

There is a bit more to this even;

There's a photo of Jeordie holding a plushie in around 1995:

twiggy ramirez

Then there's this photo of Jeordie, again most likely 1995, in a kitchen somewhere, to feed one's imagination a little bit more. 

twiggy ramirez

Also? Do I remember correctly that around 2012-2015 (some years prior to Jessicka's story being published) Jeordie was selling Twiggy Ramirez plushies on Etsy and advertising this on twitter? Could imagine a hater fantasizing about some voodoo magic on one lol. That's not far away from ”Should buy one and burn it I hate him that much.”

 

Jack Off Jill imagery around toys and plushies, ”ruined childhood”, discussed on the JOJ lyrics page further.

Then take the ”They ruined things in the microwave while writing ACSS” + Jeordie in Cribs with toys all over the stove. Use these things as material to push a story he's terribly jealous and violent, switch microwave to oven (or well be inspired by the stove in Cribs), and there you have it: ”Jeordie put my stuffed animals in the oven because he was that jealous.”

 

So, no. I don't believe this part either. 

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