JOJ + MM affiliation
JESSICKA & MANSON PT.1
Before Jessicka made her claims against Jeordie, Jack Off Jill posted on Facebook a post where it was said that "truth is coming soon" and the band seemingly wanted to make it clear they wanted no association to Marilyn Manson at all, stating they "haven't supported him in 16 years." But it doesn't really look like that's the case at all.
This post was made in 2017, so "haven't supported Marilyn Manson in 16 years" would mean that they haven't supported him since Jack Off Jill originally broke up after their second album, Clear Hearts, Grey Flowers. In 2017, 16 years ago would take this to 2001.
Before we go into the proof that this is not true, it's important to note that it seems that Jessicka is the one making the posts on the Jack Off Jill account on behalf of the whole band, whether the rest of the band agrees or not. This comes through in a since deleted comment that was under another post on Jack Off Jill's instagram. Jack Off Jill's Tenni A Cha Cha calls Jessicka out for using JOJ's social media platforms to publicly air dirty laundry.
And in general, Jessicka has been the most outspoken member of Jack Off Jill, she has been the frontwoman and the face of the band since the beginning. She has given all the interviews and she generally is the one that people remember from the band. Which makes the following finds very interesting.
When looking through Jessicka's own websites with Wayback Machine, the affiliation to Marilyn Manson seems something she's proud of. She likes to talk about her friendship to Marilyn Manson a lot, and Marilyn Manson is even listed as a "Friend & Artist who inspires" On Jessicka's own website, Marilyn Manson along with other members of the band (notably Jeordie too) is listed in the gallert folder "guy friends". You can see for yourself in the archived website version here.
& which bands do you hate ?
J: Limp Bizkit, Cold, any date rape rock ....
Not Marilyn Manson huh?
Out of Manson's girlfriends, which one do you like the best?
J: Dita, I think she's been good for him.
Don't support Marilyn Manson but care about which girlfriend is good for him? Interesting.
Describe the strangest person who has ever come to one of your shows?
J: Well, there was this one guy tall skinny fellow from Florida. He use to hang around at JOJ shows talk about the work of Anton Zandor LeVay ,The Cat In The Hat, serial killers, old horror movies,and Frederick Nietzsche. He had long black hair, bunch of tattoos, and a lunchbox.. and he had the audacity to claim that one day he'd become a great big rockstar. That guy was pretty strange but I certainly did like him.(and still do)..
Fairly obviously this is Marilyn Manson...
What is your relationship with Mr. Manson?
J: My relationship with Manson is the best its ever been. I can finally call him a friend again. I can attribute some of our new found closeness to some tragic events that happen in our lives the last few years. I think we've finally both come to terms with all the bullshit in our lives and got rid of people who filled our heads with doubt and the other's true intentions (funny that it was both our ex-bass players). Our friendship has spanned more than a decade and has had its up and downs. Right now we are on an upswing and I truly like having him my life again.
J: Since we are on the Manson topic, How did you feel about what he wrote about you in his book?
At first I was absolutely hurt and horrified that my involvement in his life had been reduced to a mere mention as a 'groupie' in LHROOH. The term groupie has such a negative connotation even if it means an admirer of a celebrity who attends as many of his or her public appearances as possible. I didn't think that all I was to him.
I guess I didn't really see it that way because I had always considered myself a friend an musical equal more than a groupie. While the book was written, his ex-guitar player Scott joined my band (at the time Scott had a lawsuit pending against Manson.) I think because we hadn't spoken about it he took that as a slight against him. He (Manson) claims that he was furious with me and I had no idea. It also didn't help that my ex-boyfriend had become Manson's right-hand man and had always been envious that Manson and I had a lot in common. With all of that I believe that is why he wrote what he wrote about me. He called me right after Scott was no longer in the band. I know he believes that his influence was the reason Scott parted ways with Jack Off Jill but in essence his involvement had just run its course. I told Manson how hurt I was about what he had written; he explained that at the time he felt that I was no longer his friend and that while the original idea of his book was being thrown around New Orleans, I had asked him not to go into detail about mine and Twiggy's tumultuous relationship. He felt that by deleting me from certain events in his life that he had kept his promise.
Now that Scott is no longer in my band and Twiggy no longer in his, he has said that the would take it all back if he could. (I'm still waiting for that retraction). I think if I had written a book 3 years ago there would be things written about certain people that I would want to set straight or retract after getting fucked over by them. Like I said in the previous answer about Manson, our relationship is good and it has come full circle. We started out not liking each other, then becoming close friends, then not liking each other and now back to being close friends again. Who knows, maybe it will go full circle 100 more times before we die. What else can you expect from two VERY opinionated artists. The end result is I respect what he does as an artist and I think finally he respects what I do, there is no competition, and even though we don't see eye to eye we can still be supportive of each other. That's all I ever wanted, really.
When this FAQ was edited later, archived version from 2013 shows this answer with this part added:
I was lucky enough to attend his wedding to Dita Von Teese at Castle Gurteen in County Tipperary, Ireland with Christian while on tour with Scarling. It was beautiful and one of the last times I can remember seeing him happy. Even though their relationship did not work out, I'm thankful I was introduced to Dita. She is an incredible friend and an inspiration. She's certainly shown strength, beauty, and grace under fire.
Okay. She definitely was friends with and supported him. Friend and artist who inspires:
The same thing can be noted from another of her websites. After Jack Off Jill disbanded, Jessicka started another band called Scarling. Scarling's archived websites also seem to show support to Marilyn Manson.
Manson says it himself that him and Jessicka are "very good friends"
So. Why is this interesting? Jessicka claimed in 2017 to not have been a supporter of Marilyn Manson through the 2000s, but it appears to not have been the case. In fact, she looks to have been a big supporter and even a friend to Marilyn Manson. Why would she be a good friend with Marilyn Manson all through this time, if according to her, she couldn't speak out about the alleged abuse because Jeordie was such a central member of the band in the 90's. If this were the case, why would she want any association with Marilyn Manson at all, if he was someone who was choosing having Jeordie in the band over justice for Jessicka?
Oh yeah, maybe Marilyn didn't know. But according to Jessicka herself in these FAQ's he did know. Jessicka said so herself, that part of the reason her involvement in Marilyn Manson's book was reduced to merely a groupie was the fact that she had asked Marilyn Manson not to go into detail about Jessicka and Jeordie's tumultuous relationship.
I told Manson how hurt I was about what he had written; he explained that at the time he felt that I was no longer his friend and that while the original idea of his book was being thrown around New Orleans, I had asked him not to go into detail about mine and Twiggy's tumultuous relationship. He felt that by deleting me from certain events in his life that he had kept his promise.
So surely Manson knew something. And what he knew at the time did not result in him firing Jeordie in the 90's. But LHROOH was released in February 1998. If Manson had known something bad about Jeordie, why would Jessicka ask him to hold it back if she was "planning to come out with her story in 1997" ? And why would she be friends with Manson at this point if the whole "Jeordie's position in Manson silenced me" thing was true? And what he wrote isn't really sympathetic towards Jessicka anyway, he erased her and reduced her to a groupie and made fun of her, that tells enough.
- My take on this is that what really happened might have been this: What if it was actually Jeordie who asked Manson not to discuss anything and Jessicka, to make it look better for herself (you'll see later on this page how she twists this stuff) lied that she had asked Manson not to discuss it - this would show her fans how Manson seemingly respects her more than Jeordie.
So maybe Jessicka's friendship to Manson ended when Jeordie rejoined Marilyn Manson in 2008? That doesn't really look like that's the case either, because as you read before, Jessicka's friendship to Manson was proudly presented in the FAQs still years after Jeordie rejoined. Had she really been hurt about Jeordie rejoining, she wouldn't probably have been calling him a friend on her website still in 2013...
And while talking about Manson, Jessicka seems to imply that Manson's frienship with Jeordie was over after Jeordie left Marilyn Manson in 2002:
I think we've finally both come to terms with all the bullshit in our lives and got rid of people who filled our heads with doubt and the other's true intentions (funny that it was both our ex-bass players).
But that isn't true either. Manson and Jeordie's friendship did not end with Jeordie's departure from the band. When Jeordie joined A Perfect Circle after leaving MM, Manson showed support to him by attending his concert with the band.
"Our friendship does not change.", "I will always be here for you. I mean that."
Jeordie's comments on his departure from Manson:
The end of the Manson adventure hasn't slowed your activity down. What exactly happened between both of you?
I had arrived at a point where I wasn't able to continue. Everything was a bit confused in my head. I wasn't seeing the different things we could have made with Marilyn and I was a bit tired of the lifestyle. I thought it was time to go to something else. You know, we aren't on bad terms. It's a separation made of one accord.
Orkus: So why did you quit the band?
JW: Because it turned out to be a job - boring routine. And I didn't like the direction we were tending to at the end.
Orkus: You're speaking about the dreadful cover version of Soft Cell's Tainted Love?
JW: Right, I hated that song. It was one of the main reasons. It became awfully boring. Manson was and still is one of my best friends but the music was in the end like a pair of old shoes. And I never meant to get old with the band. I wanted to discover something new, play different music with different people and broaden my mind. As opposed to Nikki Sixx who's still caught in the same combo. I didn't want to be 45 years old and still be the bass player of MM.
White maintains that there is no bad feeling between him and his old bandmates, despite dropping the monicker that he used when he was with them.
"It wasn't a thought out decision. It just seemed natural to use my real name," he explains. "Not to say I'll never use Twiggy Ramirez ever again."
In a show of support, Marilyn Manson and girlfriend Dita Von Teese recently attended an APC show in Philadelphia.
"It felt like having sex with your new girlfriend with your old one watching," laughs Ramirez. "But when I told people I was joining this band I got nothing but good feedback. It was the obvious thing to do."
On the topic of his departure from the Manson family, White says there are no hard feelings.
"Some people grow up and some people grow in a different direction," he says. "I think we kind of grew out of each other. For me personally, it started to become a job and not something that I loved. But I'm very proud of what I did with that band and I would probably do another record with them if the opportunity came up.
"I think we both have respect for each other and are almost kind of scared of each other. It was really hard for both of us (to split). If we would have just said, 'Let's take a break from this for a while, because this sucks right now,' it would have made more sense. But you get business involved in it and you have contracts and tours and all this other stuff, it becomes a drag."
There's also this photo that kinda suggests that they did occasionally run into each other at events. Like here, August 2006, this is about one and a half year before he rejoined MM.
"WEST HOLLYWOOD, CA - AUGUST 9: (L-R) Jeordie White, (Twiggy Ramirez) and Marilyn Manson attend RABIN RODGERS 5 Year Anniversary Party at Chateau Marmont on August 9, 2006 in West Hollywood, CA. (Photo by Stefanie Keenan/Patrick McMullan via Getty Images)"
Huh? It's almost like Jessicka wanted to explain things by what looks the best for her, as if she'd "won Manson over" somehow, but both Manson and Jeordie maintain that this departure was a mutual decision and they weren't on bad terms, they just didn't see each other that much around this time.
Shortly, they weren't necessarily on bad terms but life took them to different directions, they didn't see each other for a couple years. They met randomly and talked, the friendship picked up right where it was left and they became very close again, resulting in Jeordie returning to the lineup of Marilyn Manson. - If they'd actually been on bad terms, seeing each other randomly would probably not have ended up resulting into something like almost a decade back in the same band together again.
Overall, this "got rid of him" and the earlier "Now that Scott is no longer in my band and Twiggy no longer in his, he has said that the would take it all back if he could." Kind of gives you the feeling she has this "I have Manson now and Jeordie doesnt!" kind of thing going on and if you read the lyrics page and the analysis of the song Nazi Halo, it could explain some of it.
It just looks like there was a major change of narrative in 2017.
A little guess could be that maybe Jessicka was disappointed in how even with the association and help of Marilyn Manson, she never got as successful and she's bitter it was Jeordie and not her, for whom Manson was the "way to the top". So if she understates the friendship and connection to the band, it's more a "Look how far I got despite the Manson connection."
And yes, it's true, Marilyn Manson did not create Jack Off Jill, he did not write their songs or create their image, that was all Jack Off Jill. But as I'm writing this literally on the other side of the world, the whole reason I ever was aware of Jack Off Jill was Marilyn Manson. Maybe locally JOJ was "the girl Marilyn Manson" but I'd say globally the association was helpful and maybe the change of narrative has something to do with it not taking Jessicka to the places she thinks she deserves to be.
It just sounds really bitter when you spend decades basically bragging you know Marilyn Manson and suddenly turn around like this.