Driving.

First in the accusations it's said that Jeordie cannot drive and that is a major factor in the abuse:


He slashed my tires.

He stacked junk yard TVs in front of my car so I could not leave as he did not have a car or could drive at the time.

Then, a few paragraphs later:


Trent Reznor was in South Florida around this time and we all went out on night. Trent and I struck up a conversation and Jeordie became so enraged he demanded we leave immediately. He began driving my car erratically on the highway, all the while punching me the chest several times,knocking the air out of my lungs. He proceeded to rip off the rear view mirror and threw it out the open window. Throughout the madness, this was a rather poignant moment. He just couldn’t bear to face himself in that mirror. 

So. First of all. The junkyard TVs. Where did he get them from and how? If he couldn't drive? Did he carry them one by one from somewhere and break his back in the process... (Ok I didn't realize to mention that of course there were smaller size TVs then I didn't think that would be relevant considering those at least would not be effective in stopping a car) It just doesn't sound like a very effective way of preventing someone from leaving? And I'm not imagining a huge pile but I'm just wondering. Like just carrying for example four TVs from a junkyard that's where exactly? Three blocks away? A mile away? 

She didn't seem to be in a hurry if Jeordie had the time to carry a bunch of tvs to stop her from leaving, so maybe she'd have the time to move them out of the way when Jeordie was on tour most of the year anyway, maybe she could ask the protective roommate Pete to help her. Wonder why Pete didn't ask him what he was doing anyway? And also it's not like the TVs were that heavy that you couldn't just drive towards them and break them....

What else is very interesting about this claim...

A fan contacted me with a tip. Jeordie took a photo of junkyard TVs on the side of the road and it was included in the album booklet of Album of the Year by Skew Siskin.

This photo had previously been available on the base tendencies website, but I realized that the link is broken and the photo has been deleted so I just bought the album and well...

What a coincidence right? Let's take a look at the photo and see, Jeordie is credited for photography in the booklet. 

 

Skew Siskin Jeordie White
Skew Siskin Jeordie White

So the whole TV claim by itself already sounds quite ridiculous and then there's this photo. It's not exactly a far fetched idea that this whole story about stacking TVs was possibly inspired by this photo. That's what it looks like. And if that's the case:

If even I, a pretty well researched fan had overlooked this and wasn't even previously aware of this. This isn't exactly common knowledge about Jeordie, to be aware of this you have to have paid attention closely. It doesn't really go along with the claim that Jessicka was avoiding him and having nightmares of him? Why pay attention to his career this much? Has she been hatewatching his career? Who knows. This is a bit too convenient again to simply be a coincidence. 

 And then there's the whole thing where he can't drive and then he suddenly can.

Okay. It's true that Jeordie didn't have a driver's license at the time. He didn't have a license yet even in 2001 as he appeared in MTV cribs and explained the situation as he showed the car that was in his backyard. 

Now, this doesn't mean that he isn't able to drive, as in doesn't know how to, but Jessicka literally said herself that he couldn't drive at the time. What I'm getting at is, that I have had a driver's license for six years, I drive every day, and I don't think I could drive erratically on the highway while beating someone on the front seat without crashing the car. Someone who can't drive or hasn't driven a lot probably couldn't pull that off either. Because you know, fear. It's kind of terrifying to drive for the first times.

Also, height difference. Imagine this: Jeordie who's pretty tall crams himself into Jessicka's car onto the driver's seat. He's gonna have to adjust the seat a LOT to be able to start driving because his knees would otherwise just be in the way. In this time, Jessicka could possibly take the keys from the ignition. If Jeordie was drunk (not stated if he was) this would give people time to stop him, as him "getting so enraged", possibly demanding the car keys in front of everyone too, could have alerted others to think "Is he going to drive? he's got no license and he's drunk?"

But if he didn't adjust the seat, that by itself would just make the whole driving scene even less possible. The car was most likely a manual gear car, those were more common at the time. So he'd most likely spend forever just trying to lift the clutch too fast and killing the engine again and again... With his long legs all cramped, probably wearing combat boots too, so he can't even feel very well when to lift the clutch or what pedal his foot is on.

Also, he'd only see himself in the mirror if he was sitting in a driver's seat adjusted for someone shorter than him anyway, you're not supposed to see yourself in the mirror, lol. So is this a symbolic "he'd be forced to realize he's sitting where I should be", a metaphor for him "wearing her dress", or does Jessicka admit to staring at herself while driving? Stretching her neck to check herself out?

Another thing is that often an inexperienced driver turns the wheel to the direction they're looking at without realizing, which is why they're afraid to check the mirrors or the blind spots. It takes a while to learn to just switch the gears without looking at them and turning the wheel while doing so. So it's pretty hard to imagine someone who apparently can't drive at all concentrating so much to beating someone. But well, anger is one hell of a drug. I just don't buy this part of the story at all. 

Also because the part about ripping off the rearview mirror is like a metaphor to the stolen identity claim, which can easily be proven false

It also really reminds of this part from the movie Natural Born Killers (2:15 and forward). Natural Born Killers was mentioned by Jessicka in a lot of 90's interviews as it came out in October 1994, right before the POAAF tour, where Jessicka was arrested with Marilyn Manson. She stated that the police officers referred to them as Mickey and Mallory as Jessicka and Manson reminded them of the characters of the movie. (Interviews with the arrest mentions included on the allegations against Jessicka page) She has absolutely seen this movie. 

 

Another interesting thing about the "he proceeded to rip off the rearview mirror" part is this: If you read the whole statement, the "Trent Reznor was in south Florida around this time" part comes after the whole Jeordie replacing Gidget Gein thing. So "around this time" would refer to late 1993-early 1994.  Now this is such a small detail but look at this promo picture, from probably the earliest promo pictures of Jack Off Jill:

Jessicka Addams Jack Off Jill 1993

Where's the rearview mirror? This photo is from mid 1993...

Small detail, yes. But if that's Jessicka's car in the picture (Don't know if it is but it could be) and if it's already missing the rear view mirror months before the rear view mirror incident, then that again is a question, how did Jeordie rip it off if it wasn't there in the first place. Could be someone else's car though, but just a detail that was interesting. 

For someone who doesn't believe this story at all for multiple reasons, like the fact that this "ripped off the rearview mirror" is used as kind of a metaphor for the identity theft claim that is not true, this raises the suspicion that maybe the mirror was ripped off in a separate incident earlier and it inspired this story. It is, after all, quite a specific thing that doesn't happen very often. And it's unlikely that such an inexperienced driver as Jeordie was at the time would even think of first of all driving erratically, beating someone while driving or diverting his attention towards even attempting to rip off the rearview mirror. 

And if this was a separate incident earlier and that car in the picture is actually Jessicka's car (there is no confirmation, remember, this is just speculation, think for yourself), the following thing comes to mind. 

Was Jessicka herself the one who ripped it off and drove erratically, possibly under the influence? (The statement implies they were at a bar and Jeordie just began driving her car, the reader gets the impression he was drunk even though it wasn't specifically said)

Allstar, March 1999:

The story behind the name goes like this: The band didn't have a name, and Manson had offered them a show. The night before, Jessicka was in jail for a traffic violation and printed on the cell wall was Jack and Jill went up a hill and Jack shot a cop." "I dreamt about that name and when we were flipping round different names, I said Jack In Jill," recalls Jessicka, "and in [Manson's ] normal sarcastic way, he goes, 'How about Jack Off Jill?'"

Genuinely interested, what traffic violation takes you to jail, probably not speeding or running a red light? 

Jessicka in a Jack Off Jill newsletter, November 1997:

Q: "I have a question for anyone in the band: what kind of car do you drive now, and what kind of car do you want to drive?" (From z980059@rice.farm.niu.edu)

Jessicka: "I have never wanted to drive. If I could do anything, I'd have someone drive me! Actually, I used to drive a Toyota Camery, but I drove it into the, uh, lake! All of us have turned our cars in to go tour. You can't really keep any of your possessions, so you kind of get rid of everything when you leave on tour."

On this page there was speculation on whether or not the car in the picture was a Toyota Camry, and, while the interior looked similiar to an 80's Camry, it wasn't, so now that that has been cleared, that part has been edited out. In case you're wondering, it's probably an 80's Honda Accord.

Have to mention it on this page too that I also find the rearview mirror a very interesting detail because of it's symbolic meaning. It's often seen as a metaphor for the past with quotes like "You can't move forward if you keep staring in the rearview mirror." Is it more a symbolic take in this story, that Jeordie threw away the past, he forgot about Jessicka?

 

And then if you also remember the fact that he took the name Ramirez from the serial killer Richard Ramirez. Who was identified because he forgot to wipe his fingerprints off a rearview mirror of a car he'd stolen and discarded? I mean this, and the "past" metaphor together, it's pretty much a "I am bringing up the past and exposing who you are" isn't it. - And Jeordie is described avoiding this mirror because he supposedly couldn't look at himself "for what he had done".  It's a bit too convenient once again. 

 

Well, there's this thought that comes to mind then:

Jessicka wrote about this "erratic driving" but ti does not make sense and would only be more likely to have happened the other way around - Jeordie couldn't drive at the time - Jessicka could and has admitted to being quite careless.

There's the statement from Lisa LeSeur that it was Jessicka who would hit Jeordie. From the Nightmares? page you could see that Jessicka was the one who seemed to have a hard time letting go of him and moving on and she seemed jealous of him. 

 

 And why on earth would Jeordie just start driving out of nowhere when he can't? It's like "He just started driving my car?" How did he get the keys? 

What if this actually happened but it was Jessicka who was the driver, she reversed the roles and exaggerated it a little bit?

That's one way this one would make sense.

And just, it's such a cliche movie thing once again, "I tried to drive away but my car wouldn't work" - how many movies are there where that happens?

With the Skew Siskin album booklet photo in mind, if there's the possibility of so called "hatewatching" going on... I found it weird from the start that so much of this alleged abuse seems to revolve around driving. Why? Well it's kind of common knowledge that Jeordie did not have a driver's license at the time, he said it in MTV Cribs in 2001 as he showed the car he had in his backyard and sat in. 

But he also appeared in music videos in a car at the time. Despite having no license, he drove the car in the music video for Marilyn Manson's song Coma White, and additionally he appeared in the music video for Space Lord by Monster Magnet, sitting in the front seat and moving around making faces to the camera. Interestingly he's seen kind of hanging on, holding the top of the windshield of a cabriolet car. Which is a similar position he'd be in if he was ripping off the rearview mirror. 

Let's look at some photos. Jeordie in MTV Cribs, 2001. He says he hasn't got a license, sits onto the front seat and tries to start the car. He states that he just has that car and it doesn't even work, it seems he never intended to even use it, just wanted to have one. - He states that he "moved to Los Angeles and figured I need to get myself a car, but the thing is I don't have a driver's license so I've never actually driven it before."

Jeordie White
Jeordie White

Jeordie driving in the Coma White video. I do remember an interview where Marilyn Manson joked around about the fact that Jeordie was made the driver in the video despite not having a license and not knowing how to drive. And he was drunk. I don't remember where it was, though, let me know if you do.

Twiggy Ramirez

Jeordie in the Monster Magnet video on the front seat. Look at the position he's in on the background of the first image.

Twiggy Ramirez

So uhh. I don't know. Just again pretty convenient that he's been in the media like this and then suddenly there's all these stories that seem to be influenced. Then there's the possible symbolism and even more possible influences listed on the Storytelling page. 

Might be a bit nitpicky I admit but also "speeding down the highway" when we've gone through how unlikely that happening is is also interesting if you remember what movie Jeordie appeared in in the 90's.

Well it was LOST HIGHWAY

Jessicka has stated she is a fan of David Lynch's work. Well, who isn't though, but if she has a problem with Jeordie and he appears in a film by a director that she likes, it's going to stick out as an annoying detail. But this is then again just a word, don't give in to too much confirmation bias lol I'm just throwing it out there that this reminded me of this movie. But the DVD is on a shelf next to my desk so it's in my eyesight as I'm writing this so think for yourself once again. 

Actually it's been forever since I last watched this movie. Should watch it again some time. 

I'd like to also add that this "driving possibly under the influence, without a license, after a party in south Florida with Trent Reznor".... Well there was a party in south Florida with Trent Reznor. It was the Portrait Of An American Family release party in summer 1994 and there is a photo of Jeordie with Trent Reznor from there:

So... Like alright? 

Is that story then anything more than an equation like this:

POAAF Release party photo with Trent + Jessicka seems to think Jeordie succeeding was an obstacle for her so therefore Jeordie must be portrayed as somehow jealous of Jessicka having a conversation with the bigger rockstar / producer Trent (whose band Jeordie joined after MM) + Jeordie didn't have a license, drove drunk anyways in the Coma White video + Lost Highway + reference to stolen identity claim + rearview mirror a symbol of the past and the item that got Richard Ramirez caught gets thrown outta the window + Monster Magnet video moves.

 

It's gotta be something like that because I don't think a guy that can't drive could just pull off a stunt like that, does not seem likely.

But like why does so much seem to be based on or inspired by public information?

I just got an email reminding me of this so I'll add one more example: In Jessicka's story, she described Jeordie "dumping a cage full of white pet mice into my mother's car that I was borrowing, he would hit me over and over again while the mice scattered" For what purpose did he "dump the mice in the car"? Did they even have pet mice? I have never seen him mention having mice as pets. Cats, dogs, rabbits, even a goat  but never mice. And really, what kind of a situation would lead to this? What would escalate to this? What do the mice have to do with anything?

But in one episode of Hour Of Goon, Fred Sablan tells a story like this: They were celebrating Fred's birthday in a Mexican restaurant and Jeordie showed up with multiple gifts. He handed these boxes one by one to Fred, telling him to shake each gift box, until the last one, which, when handing it to Fred, Jeordie said "Please don't shake this one." This box contained a mouse. Fred was annoyed by this gift as he didn't know what to do with it and where to put it as they were in a restaurant. He said something like "I was annoyed I had to leave that party to take that mouse into my car and leave it there waiting for the rest of the night".

Okay, take Fred out of that story and add in the implication that Jeordie is insane and violent. It very easily can be turned to "Jeordie had a mouse in a box and he was shaking the box and then he ran outside and threw it into my car oh my god."

Well, not only that, but the same person who emailed me, also noted that an interview from 1996 includes Manson and Jeordie mentioning live mice and rats:

Alternative Nation, 1997 transcription, filmed 1996:

Toby Amies: So, so what do you all get up to when you're on tour, on your bus and everything. What are the kind of high japes that Marilyn Manson,
Marilyn Manson: High Jinx?
Toby Amies: Yeah. Play tricks on each other? I know you hit everybody else in the band. Do you ever,
Twiggy Ramirez: Bunk bed pirates.
Toby Amies: What?
Twiggy Ramirez: Bunk bed pirates.
Toby Amies: Bunk bed pirates? Is that you all try and get up on top or what exactly, is that a euphemism for some erotic behaviour? (Marilyn laughs)
Marilyn Manson: Um, usually when we're not, uh, well there's live mice and things like that we like to put in one anothers bunks.
Toby Amies: Like Nosferatu, you travel with a lot of rats wherever you go.
Marilyn Manson: Uh, actually I thought that was Richard Gere.
Toby Amies: I think that's gerbils.

Letting live mice loose in bandmates' bunks? - You can probably see from the general tone they're joking. But yeah, once again, as this fan that sent me this stated too, "There is a constant pull from public information." And as you can see, these "scenes" Jessicka portrays are a bit too creative. Abusive behavior is often far more mundane. Can say from experience. 

This also sounds like something that could happen in a movie? I mean once again there's all this symbolism. Really brings to mind in general the kind of art Jessicka likes. I mean just white soft little innocent mice running away from horrible domestic violence, a crying young girl with a tragic past standing next to her mother's car being beaten by an insane guy, - Todd Solondz meets Mark Ryden / Marion Peck. Very typical Jessicka imagery.

One more of these situations revolving around driving is that Jessicka claims Jeordie jumped into a river (the New River in Ft Lauderdale) in retaliation to her giving someone else a ride.  This is obviously just meant to portray how unstable he supposedly was, and yet again it's just thrown into the story, there is no "how, when, where, what happened after" 

And well, in Manson's biography LHROOH there is portrayed a situation where Manson's having a bad mushroom trip at a party (somewhere in LA but near a river) and he hears Jeordie talking about a boat, trying to jump into the water...

I don't have the english edition of the book so I'm translating from the finnish edition, this is not an exact quote:

[Manson's been looking for a place where he can be alone as the drugs are making him scared out of his mind, Twiggy has been talking about stealing a boat, he too has done mushrooms] I escaped into an other room and I found a nook under the stairs. For some reason it was filled with pillows. I laid down on top of them and enjoyed my solitude. I heard the others talking on the outside, especially Twiggy, who tried to jump into the water, looking for a boat. I was afraid he would drown and I would have to talk to the police.

One thing to note about this story from LHROOH is that the whole description of the situation, if you've read it, they're not exactly anywhere near water, they're inside a building and Manson is hallucinating all kinds of scary scenarios and he's paranoid about having to deal with police. Earlier in the same story he says he feared that "Pogo was probably killing someone at this very moment and I would have to deal with cops. I don't want to deal with cops when I'm on drugs." It's very likely that what actually happened was that Jeordie talked about a boat and Manson hallucinated hearing through a wall that he was trying to jump into the water. More so it seems he thought Jeordie was trying to jump. It's not specified whether he actually did, but it's unlikely considering the rest of the story.

This too is yet again "Jeordie had no license + alleged jealousy + need to portray him as unstable as possible + story everyone's read from LHROOH"

It's very easy to just move this story into Ft. Lauderdale as there is a lot of waterways and yachts in there, the area is known for that. Here's a kinda tourist info video that shows it pretty well.

How much public information is being used as an inspiration, really raises the question, how long did the relationship actually even last if one needs to read interviews with a magnifying glass for inspiration...

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