Was Jessicka the abusive one?

To be updated, information may be outdated. This page will be rewritten, be sure to check soon again! You can still read it, but I'd consider this a "draft" now as months have passed and stuff has been discussed. Keep an eye on the social media pages to know when this is a good page again.

 

Right as Jessicka came out with her allegations in 2017 on Facebook, there were a few comments in the comment section that suggested that the other side of the story would be quite different. 

And well, alright, these are just comments on social media (but without offering any proof, that's what Jessicka's claims are too at the end of the day), who knows about the credibility of them. But then, here's what Jeordie's girlfriend Michelle Siwy had to say:

michellejess.png

"It's a real shame that all it takes is ONE self-serving narcissist with a long history of being an abuser." Alright. Well, we don't know for sure if Michelle knew Jeordie or Jessicka at the time, though so there's the "were you there though" thing that people like to argue with. But there has been talk about her and Jeordie dating in the 90's for a while, but can't confirm this. If this is actually true, it would mean that someone who dated him at the time was definitely not traumatized by him and also knew what was going on. These posts on instagram are interesting considering this. Obviously the second one is edited, but the comment under and then the caption of the first photo....

Also, going through Jessicka's own website via wayback machine, something very interesting can be found, when there's talk about the way Marilyn Manson talked about Jessicka in his biography book Long Hard Road Out Of Hell: 

"....while the original idea of his book was being thrown around New Orleans, I had asked him not to go into detail about mine and Twiggy's tumultuous relationship."

Well. So alright. This suggests that whatever was going on in their relationship, Marilyn Manson knew about it, why else would Jessicka ask him not to go into detail about this tumultuous relationship? And whatever Marilyn Manson knew did not lead to him firing Jeordie from the band then, in fact he did not mention their relationship in the book at all, but rather described Jessicka as a groupie who slept with his bandmembers. So Manson's opinion of Jessicka at the time seemed negative for some reason and Jessicka did not want him to talk about it? Could it be, that Marilyn had seen and heard how things were from Jeordie's point of view?

Also, if Manson didn't even want to work with Scott on ACSS and hey didn't get along, why would Manson be mad about Scott joining JOJ? - He didn't seem to have an issue with Jeordie joining NIN after leaving Manson either, even though Manson and Trent Reznor had a very public falling out that has been widely reported. I kind of doubt that in 1997 Manson even cared about who played in Jack Off Jill as he was really busy with his own band.

 

Could it be that actually Manson wasn't on good terms with Jessicka because he'd seen how Jessicka and Jeordie's relationship was, which had Jessicka nervous about Manson possibly writing about it in his book? "It didn't help that Twiggy had become Manson's right hand man" okay, maybe it didn't help Jessicka that Jeordie and Manson were close friends and Manson knew Jeordie's side of the story...

Now, just recently, there was more information found on this. Colonel Kurtz on Youtube interviewed an ex of Manson's, Lisa LeSeur. They talked about the onging Marilyn Manson situation, but briefly touched on the subject of Jeordie and Jessicka.

Around halfway through the video, Lisa is asked about the friendship between Jeordie and Marilyn, and the subject of Jessicka comes up. Lisa LeSeur says that it was an issue that was talked about in their social circles, that Jessicka was abusive towards Jeordie. She says that she even witnessed some of it, Jessicka being verbally demeaning towards him. When asked about what kind of abuse she was talking about, Lisa described Jessicka being both physically and verbally violent, hitting him and yelling at him. She was also asked how Jeordie would react, and she said "I would feel bad for him because he would kind of just shut down a little bit, like a little boy being scolded. He would not get fired up, he would back down. I always felt bad for him."

Now, this description of Jessicka matches what Michelle Siwy and those commenters said. The description of Jeordie also matches some discussions in the Hour Of Goon podcast that Jeordie did with Fred Sablan fairly recently. In many episodes, the way Jeordie tends to avoid conflict comes through. Jeordie is often described as a person who apologizes even if he knows he doesn't need to, just to end the conflict and get over it. In one episode, Jeordie told a story about how he went to a convention, and a toddler screamed at him and he said he felt genuinely threatened because being yelled at like that "awoke a memory of being bullied at school or something." These conversations in the podcast go well along with what Lisa Said.

This claim could still use a more detailed description, if you know more, please contact the site! While useful and from someone who was provably there at the time, this statement was quite vague. Jessicka has a whole story with detailed incidents, surely someone remembers incidents from this side too. If not only to clear things up, but also, can't demand fairness for Jeordie while simultaneously going "this person said many people saw her hit him, case closed" it is a statement, yes, but there's not much to respond to. What happened, when?

Another thing that supports what Lisa said is this part in Jessicka's statement:

At this point I wanted to leave him, but at this time most of my friends who had not moved away were also too enmeshed in the Manson camp to find a way to do the right thing and stand up for me. No one was comfortable speaking about it, let alone thinking of exposing to the world the horror I was dealing with.

It could suggest that Jessicka was making claims that the people around them didn't believe because they had seen the way she acted towards Jeordie?

There's also this expression in her statement: 

Once our band Jack Off Jill started to gain a following locally, abuse and mild violence between Jeordie and I began to escalate.

Between? So does this mean that both of them took part in this abuse and mild violence? I don't mean to be nitpicking too much, but wouldn't towards me be more descriptive if he was always the instigator?

Also. This could explain why I haven't been able to really find literally any comments of him ever saying anything about Jessicka. Everything we really know about this relationship is from Jessicka's words. Maybe he hasn't said anything because he doesn't have nice things to say or doesn't want to have this discussion in public at all.

Jessicka's aggressiveness is also no secret. As said in the video, she really has started wars with multiple people on social media, and likes to fight online quite a lot. This is pretty well documented online with screenshots. Here's an example:

So just overall. Her online and irl presence has always been very aggressive, her falling outs with her friends have always been loud and ugly and public. She seems to carry grudges forever (like for example towards former JOJ member Robin Moulder) Jeordie overall has always seemed to avoid conflict. Of course the way one acts on social media is never the whole truth, but at least for me, a former fan of Jessicka's, her behavior has been so obnoxious, that I have unfollowed her on social media everywhere. There is a tumblr blog that has documented some of this:

addamslovemail

It is also very interesting, that in her 2017 statement, Jessicka claims that she would avoid any association with Jeordie. That she would have nightmares of running into him in events and would drink too much to forget what happened. Well, it doesn't exactly look like that's the case. When taking a look back in time, it looks more like her association to Jeordie was proudly presented.

What comes through from the wayback machine archived versions of her website Jessicka.com, is that she liked to mention her association with Jeordie a lot. He was pretty much mentioned in every section of her website. While in the gallery he was in "guy friends," in the bio it was flaunted that Jessicka "came up with his style," in the FAQ section he was commented on quite passive aggressively. 

Now, if Jeordie had really been the way she described him in 2017, why on earth would she want to mention him so often on her site? 

Jessicka Addams Jeordie White

What comes through to the reader is that, she seems to want her piece of Jeordie's success. She wants to put him down but at the same time she wants him on her site as some sort of a "I was a part of this thing!" It really doesn't match the narrative that she's been pushing in 2017...

Aside from the mid 00's Jessicka site, an archived version of Jack Off Jill's website in the year 2000 is very interesting. Jeordie is yet again mentioned there. Keep in mind that in Jessicka's statement in 2017 she said she did not want to tour with Marilyn Manson in 1999 and that while on the tour she avoided any interaction with Jeordie. It's quite interesting considering that after that, the band's photo gallery section looks like this:

A certain bass player with his Jack Off Jill shirt? Jessicka & Twiggy? The past relationship and association to Jeordie is proudly presented here. Let's look at the "Certain bass player" photo.

Jessicka Addams Jeordie White Twiggy Ramirez

There are a few things that make this photo especially interesting. First; Jessicka's description of the alleged rape took place during the 1994 tour with Nine Inch Nails. At the time, Jeordie did not shave his eyebrows yet, so this picture would be taken after that. Who is the woman then? 

The woman in the picture could be Jessicka's mother and if not, it could be her aunt?  Who else would want their picture up on a Jack Off Jill website. But why would it be up on the Jack Off Jill website in the first place, had Jeordie really been as horrible as described. 

Jessicka would share this photo again years later, a screenshot of this deleted post can still be found online. 

It doesn't really look like there's bad memories linked to this photo at all. 

So maybe she wasn't so afraid of him in reality. Maybe she was the scary one. At least she seemed to want to come across as the scary one at the time. But it could be just her being edgy, who knows. These following quotes aren't exactly evidence, just pointing out that they give a very different picture of Jessicka in the 90's than her own stories in 2017 and on.

Here's this quote from an interview in Seconds, 1998:

Seconds: What's your current fetish?

Jessicka: I've had a cutting fetish for a little while. I've been really into just putting little nicks - little nail marks - on people, even people I don't know. I've been doing it a lot lately. You know, rubbing against somebody and seeing how far I can cut and then pretending like I didn't know what I was doing. I'm always pulling and picking. Pulling the hairs out of people's legs, picking open sores - that's my everyday life. If someone's going to let me pick a scab, I will, If that's a fetish, then so be it.

Hit Parader, 1998:

"Nobody's bothered me yet, and nobody will - if they know what's good for 'em," she said. "Guys have never scared me, and they never will. On the other hand, I know a few guys who I may have scared a little bit. That's just part of the fun."

These quotes are quite different than what she would like you to believe she was like in her 2017 statement. It is confusing for an old fan to read for various reasons.

And just, if it really was the case that Jeordie was sickly jealous and controlling and hard to break up with, then why is it Jessicka, and only Jessicka that has kept bringing up this relationship, commenting on Jeordie, posting throwback pictures and including him in everything? Shouldn't it be the other way around. But try and find Jeordie mentioning Jessicka on social media or talking about her in an interview. 

People also like to bring up the Jack Off Jill lyrics as some sort of proof that Jeordie was abusive, but to be honest, the only song where it's the most likely that he's the subject, that's Nazi Halo. And there he's described as a faggot if the song is about him, which again, tells a lot. For more about the lyrics go to the lyrics page.

There has also been allegations made against Jessicka Addams by fans that attended a show in 1994, who claim she sexually assaulted minors.

Of course, the same arguments as we've used to defend Jeordie also apply here and should be thought about before letting your imagination run wild:

Jeordie and Jessicka were seen together after the alleged incidents, they still toured together. Marilyn Manson seemed to remain friends with Jessicka for a long time after Jeordie and Jessicka's relationship, which he probably wouldn't have done, had he witnessed something absolutely terrible and life threatening (Many of you have Johnny and Amber in mind.) We can't jump to a conclusion like "everything Jessicka described happened but it was the other way around," no, but maybe something did happen. 

But at the same time, especially in the 90's, having an abusive girlfriend was something that was not taken as seriously as it would have been, had the situation been the other way around. If Lisa LeSeur's description of them is true, the lack of it showing more clearly would be partly explained by this. Did Jeordie say "Nevermind, let's not talk about it"? His tactic seems to have been to just not acknowledge her at all.