Was Jessicka the abusive one?
There has been discussion on whether it's possible that actually, if anyone in the relationship was abusive, it would have been Jessicka. We'll go through this side of things on this page in detail.
Right as Jessicka came out with her allegations in 2017 on Facebook, there were a few comments in the comment section that suggested that the other side of the story would be quite different.
And well, alright, these are just comments on social media (but without offering any proof, that's what Jessicka's claims are too at the end of the day), who knows about the credibility of them. Similarly, anonymous comments as well as comments posted with an username are often simply read as truth in this kind of cases. These were posted on Facebook with the people's real names though, but despite having multiple screenshots of the same comments, I didn't manage to get any where the names would be fully visible. If you happen to be someone who knows more, or even are one of the people commenting, you can find the contact info on the About page. (Remember that whatever you say won't be published without permission and your identity will not be revealed without permission either) These would of course just be some comments, but there is more.
In the aftermath of Jessicka's allegations going viral, Jeordie's girlfriend made some fairly vague posts on social media, which were quite obviously about the situation:
"It's a real shame that all it takes is ONE self-serving narcissist with a long history of being an abuser." Alright. That does heavily imply that things might have been the opposite of what the public were discussing. But what does Michelle know, was she there back then or is she just repeating what she's been told? - Of course anyone's significant other would trust the word of the person they're supporting, and in this case where the accusations are very shady, that is not exactly a surprise what her opinion is. But it might also be that she'd been around a longer time and is actually familiar with the situation and it's details.
Her dating Jeordie, at the time, was very new and not many people were aware of it. But there has been discussion on them possibly knowing each other for a long time. I've seen fans repeat it many times that "Actually, they dated in the 90's already and got back together recently." I'm still yet to find proper confirmation for this, But there are two posts on Michelle's instagram that could imply that this is actually true and they're below:. 1: A picture of 1997 Jeordie photo print on the wall, with the caption "It's like everything I've ever lost in this life come back to me." and 2: Some sort of a party photo from 1996 with 1994 Jeordie edited into it, pretty obviously jokingly, not implying it's legit or anything, and in the comments someone asks if he was with her in the 90's and she replies "We are each other's first love"
I mean, okay, this could just be the source of why people have made this conclusion. Both of the photos do point to 1996-1997 though. The 2nd one could just be joking around but the 1st, is more sincere. Could say that at least these do confirm that they have known each other for a very long time, and Michelle could very well have seen something regarding this situation with her own eyes and her opinion might very well be formed on that.
Anyway, what is interesting is that there are at least four other people known to have dated Jeordie in the 90's, none of them have come forward saying anything at all in support of Jessicka, and two have expressed public support to him. Helen Storer and Michelle Siwy. Certainly at least Michelle wasn't in any way traumatized. Keep in mind, Jessicka keeps calling Jeordie a "serial abuser" and she did not only accuse him of abusing her, but several others, none of whom have ever come forward to confirm these claims. .
And well, tells a lot about Jessicka's intentions really how she talks about Michelle, clearly she is trying her best to make everyone see Michelle as someone not worth listening, as she's been tweeting about her to her followers like this example below... Implying Michelle is basically just a fangirl who's starstruck. Can you possibly be a little bit more misogynistic Jessicka? Let alone cropping an at the time six months old tweet out of context too... (Full context on the fake stalker page) Michelle clearly knows a lot Jessicka doesn't want her to say, she wouldn't be tweeting this kind of bullshit otherwise... And where does this need even come from, Michelle has not commented on this topic much at all publicly in the last few years, besides some very vague remarks here and there, someone is clearly a bit afraid of being exposed.
Well as for the vague remarks... I was sent this tweet in around april/may of 2022 if I remember correctly, but after seeing this "superfan sad GF" stuff I can't really say I have a lot of options as to who Michelle could be talking about when she mentions "tweeting absurdities...." For context, Joseph Massey is a poet that also went through a cancelling/metoo situation, I'm not exactly familiar with the details of his situation, but he has been tweeting about rebuilding his career independently after what happened, and about how his former supporters/colleagues tweet about him.
But I mean... She may not have met Jessicka, but her behavior is clearly familiar to her. She may have heard Jeordie's version, but Jessicka's behavior would've proven it true to her. It did, for me personally, being harassed by Jessicka only further convinced me that Jeordie is innocent and Jessicka was in fact the abuser and still continues to be.
As for the stalking, it is widely known among people that have kept up with this case, that Jessicka keeps an eye on anyone who supports Jeordie, seeks out his fans to start an argument with... She has also very clearly kept a close watch on his career despite claiming to have avoided him, as her claims about him seem to be inspired by his public appearances. This page, This page.
Tried to do the same with me, start arguing with me, I didn't change my mind or stop posting despite the demands, so for sure, absurdities were tweeted about me. Jessicka lied that I had threatened to kill her and that I was stalking her, that she'd gone to the authorities who were monitoring me and finding out my personal info for her. You can read about that in the Jessicka VS me section.
Then, there's Lisa LeSeur.
Lisa was interviewed by Colonel Kurtz on youtube, regarding her relationship with Marilyn Manson in the 90's. She briefly discussed the allegations about Jeordie too.
(16/10/22: The video has been set private, I am aware. It still happened and the claims in it were made. I don't know the reasons behind this decision to private it. I will include this discussion about Lisa's comments on here because they're a part of this "case." )
Around halfway through the video, Lisa is asked about the friendship between Jeordie and Marilyn, and the subject of Jessicka comes up. Lisa LeSeur says that it was an issue that was talked about in their social circles, that Jessicka was abusive towards Jeordie. She says that she even witnessed some of it, Jessicka being verbally demeaning towards him. When asked about what kind of abuse she was talking about, Lisa described Jessicka being both physically and verbally violent, hitting him and yelling at him. She was also asked how Jeordie would react, and she said "I would feel bad for him because he would kind of just shut down a little bit, like a little boy being scolded. He would not get fired up, he would back down. I always felt bad for him."
This is pretty interesting now, as Jessicka's own "witness" has never commented on the issue or backed her up, as well as other suspicious details about the whole thing. And here, Lisa comes out with this, and she was originally talking about the Manson case. Of course, we could use a more detailed description, but this is a person that was provably around at the time stating what they know. This witness speaks by herself with her own name and face.
Lisa also mentioned that Jessicka has been starting wars with other women on social media. This is true, as mentioned before, Helen Storer, also she was very close with Lynz Way, the bassist of Mindless Self Indulgence, but had a very public falling out with her, in which both of them resorted to making fake accounts to harass each other on social media, etc. This I will not go through here, but just a google search will lead you down the rabbit hole with countless screenshots. She also had an ugly falling out with the co-founder of Jack Off Jill, bassist Robin Moulder.
Jessicka, of course has since tweeted that she has never met Lisa at all, and repeated that she never abused Jeordie. Okay, it's just that she has literally personally made up stories about yours truly, she has provably lied about a lot of things. Jessicka's discussion style is essentially just that she demands that people listen to her and her only, and she can decide who is allowed to talk about this, or her. I have been told for example that I'm not allowed to say her name? There are questions about Lisa, though:
Jessicka's husband Christian (which could have been just Jessicka for all I know with her and her multiple accounts) has challenged Lisa's credibility also with the fact that Lisa did follow Jessicka on social media and comment to her nicely. This though, took place decades after this all. Decades after something that especially in the 90's was not generally taken very seriously. Maybe she did not know either of them very well personally, as she was more close to Manson. She saw things happen and heard them being talked about, but didn't consider them her business necessarily, and only upon the allegations did she think back to that and think, no actually...? Maybe she followed Jessicka more so as a person who listened to her music in the 90's? Women being abusive are not, were not back then either, especially largely condemned the way men being abusive would be condemned. There is a visible double standard.
Manson was also known to date Missi Romero around this time, (1992-1997) which some have brought up as a point to question Lisa. Would be interesting to hear what Missi has to say, she has been quiet about this all in both the Manson and the Jeordie allegations. Would she, as someone whom Jessicka has mentioned as a friend through all of this have something to say? However, the relationship to Missi happening around this time does not necessarily mean there couldn't have been some sort of a break in that relationship. Did they break up and get together again, with this thing with Lisa happening in between? Did Manson have an affair?
Lisa does have a picture with Manson, which portrays them as pretty close at the moment of the photo being taken, though. Included next to the videos, it's from 1993.
I did try to reach out to Lisa with additional questions, whether or not she remembers anything specific, a specific moment happening. I did not get any further details. What she says about Jessicka and Jeordie is not very descriptive, and for a proper judgment about whether or not what she says is true, it would need more. I personally believe her, but for someone else it understandably may not be enough as her story is quite vague. The interview, however was not about Jeordie and Jessicka, it was about Lisa's connection to Marilyn Manson and this was a sidenote in that conversation, not the main topic of the video.
Still with these issues, Lisa should not be disregarded: She is someone stating she was there, she provably was around in those times, she is saying Jessicka abused Jeordie. This is more "having a witness" than Jessicka saying she had a witness who refuses to comment and has been seen hanging out with Jeordie and all that stuff.
Anyway, Lisa's comment; "He would kind of just shut down a little bit, like a little boy being scolded. He would not get fired up, he would back down," - reminded me of something I had heard before immediately.
In an episode of his Hour Of Goon podcast, Jeordie told a story about going to some sort of a convention, a dinosaur exhibit, and a child screamed at him, and Jeordie described feeling genuinely threatened because someone yelled at him in public. This is also available as a video clip on my instagram here.
Jeordie: ...and then I got bullied by a little kid. Because there was this thing that blew like steam rings, like you know ppffffhhh up in the air from the ground. Oh no, no, they did have the steam rings but this was the tornado. It was like a little, mini tornado. -Cool, you know. And I'm like ”Oh! I want to go stand in the tornado!” So I went to go stand in the tornado... And it all dissipated. And a little kid was like ”What are you doing?! You gotta stay away from it! You messed it up!!” And I immediately felt like I was like in elementary school again, getting uh...
Fred: You ruined it.
Jeordie: I ruined it. And I was... Bullied by this little kid! - We have it on video too, it was funny. And my reaction, - I was... Genuinely threatened!
Jeordie: You know? It must have triggered some childhood memories of being bullied. Which, you know, to some extent, I was. It just felt really weird.
Now, this is a completely unrelated example, from a completely different situation, but it does portray a different Jeordie than Jessicka's stories. People generally seem to think of Jeordie as a very calm person who is very hard to piss off, he's not confrontational, unlike Jessicka. I have been contacted by Jeordie fans for example who have been a target of Jessicka's bullying and harassment, and people on social media, such as for example musician William Control (who was also accused around the same time as Jeordie but was able to prove the accusations towards himself false with things like text messages etc), who expressed support to Jeordie, stated on twitter that he'd received death threats from the Addams. Threats of cops and lawsuits are not new either.
Another Hour Of Goon episode has a story that explains his pretty calm demeanor further. Also available as a video clip on my instagram here.
In this episode, guest Lee Miles tells a story that's very contradicting to the way Jessicka described Jeordie. (Of course, Jessicka is talking about the 90's and this podcast is from 2016-2017 but remember that Jessicka also implies that Jeordie has not changed at all through the years and is still the same, she claimed Jeordie for example abused Laney Chantal, with whom he was together through the 2010's. Laney very clearly denied these claims and still remains friends with Jeordie.)
Lee states that one of Jeordie's guitars was broken while in his possession. There's like a whole intro to this story where they first describe how much Jeordie liked that guitar and how nice it was, that ”I remember when you got it and you played it, you said: I can't believe I have this guitar.” So the guitar is broken in the studio when a light stand falls on it and pretty much slices it, this is described very dramatically.
Lee then describes calling Jeordie about the broken guitar, mentally prepared for Jeordie to be pissed off about this, but he's not pissed off at all and starts calming Lee down,
- "Immediately you were like just calming me down, like, it's ok. It's ok."
Then Jeordie comments; ”When you were telling me, I was like, gosh... And maybe it's because I'm like, codependent with the entire world. I just thought, Oh my god it must have been so hard for you. I wasn't mad at you, I just felt so bad for you that you had to call me about it. I thought it must have been so hard for you to make that phonecall. So I was like, It's ok.”,
Fred Sablan confirms this is very Jeordie-like; "Wow, what a heartbreaking story. I agree though. I could see you feeling bad for Lee having to tell you about that guitar."
Then they all laugh at the idea of Jeordie getting angry and smashing guitars in the studio, it comes through that that would be very out of character for him and they find this idea hilarious.
It's a bit weird that generally Jeordie is known as a very calm person who doesn't get angry very easily, then only Jessicka claims he is the opposite; an aggressive and violent person... But then we can see her claiming she's this kind and caring person while she in fact acts aggressively, bullies and harasses people left and right... It's just a situation where what I'm being told to believe does not at all match what I can see with my own eyes, what I have personally had to deal with...
It's also interesting that in Jessicka's statement, she talked about "violence between us", now, I don't want to be too nitpicky, but had Jeordie been always the instigator in conflicts, had Jessicka been this person with no control over anything, wouldn't this be "towards me" rather than "between us" ?.
It's also, with this in mind, as well as the other things, interesting how she describes it so that "everyone knew about it but wasn't willing to stand up for me." Her story varies between absolutely no one except Pete witnessing anything and literally everyone knowing, depending on who she's talking to and what arguments are being made. The entire claim seems to vary so that sometimes it was one occasion, the alleged rape and nothing else, and sometimes it's Jeordie hurting several people and everyone being aware through the years. This variation does not make sense. And generally she likes to twist things.
But considering this all and the variation in the narrative, could this "no one was willing to stand up for me" in reality be so that maybe she was making claims that the others didn't react to because they knew them to be untrue? I mean, if you read what she said about me! She twists and exaggerates everything! "Her husband" was going after me on twitter a while back, trying to guilttrip me into not discussing this. In his tweets at me, there was no substance other than poor arguments and "how dare you, you're triggering her". So I blocked them, and a while later shared in my story a meme that was like "buy my silence" - it was a joke! I was pretty broke and I was being told I'm not allowed to discuss a public drama that somehow only Jessicka supporters can comment on with their opinions that are fairly uneducated on anything to do with Jeordie.
So Jessicka claimed that I'm threatening her life and extorting her, this went on for days. I'm just saying that I would not be surprised if a similar thing happened, that she was making claims about Jeordie that just grew to a level where friends didn't take them seriously anymore, and maybe other had been subjected to this kind of behavior too. - It seems that each time she has a problem with someone, the entire story changes to something where Jessicka was always a victim of something and being somehow used by the other person. For example her former friend, ex Jack Off Jill member Helen Storer, who also dated Jeordie in the 90's and expressed support to him, which then lead to Jessicka harassing her on social media and basically trying to deny their entire friendship...
As for this twisting an exaggerating, let's go back to the "sad GF superfan" tweet, - she described Jeordie as manipulative. Well, what is this kind of tweeting below if not manipulative, if I may ask? For context, this was part of the whole fabricating a story about a stalker scenario I mentioned, but I only saw this tweet after I had responded, so it was not included in the initial response on that page. But anyhow, what I said about exaggerating.... And this is incredibly manipulative!!
So upon facing justified criticism, she makes up a false story about her life being threatened, then as she is pushing this story, she attaches a completely unrelated photo that has absolutely nothing to do with the situation or the alleged abuse, simply what appears to be a photo of her washing off fake blood after the last Jack Off Jill show, at which she appeared on stage covered in blood.
This is, of course, stated in the tweet, but it's among the last things. The viewer of the post has already had the mislead emotional reaction of shock, that they think she is in physical pain. To someone completely unfamiliar to the situation, this photo gives the impression that she's trying to protect herself from someone violently attacking her, in this context, Jeordie, when it is not what's happening at all and the photo has been taken over 20 years after the events she's alleging. And upon closer inspection her hand is pressed against glass, not raised in self defense.
This kind of post makes people alarmed and concerned for her when in fact it's been her lying about this stalking and harassment all the time. And for what possible other reason would this photo be attached? Yeah.
She very clearly comes across as a person who will do anything to frame herself as a victim and resort to manipulative tricks, whatever she can so that people will feel bad for her instead of holding her accountable.
Another example is this tweet below where she plays the victim once again after being faced with justified criticism.
She tries to state it as such that people are simply looking up dirt to discredit her upon her "telling the truth" about Jeordie, but no, what in reality happened was that there were allegations of sexual abuse made towards Jessicka by men that were talking about a show in the 90's, at which they were at the time only 13-14 years old. Jessicka claimed that people were calling her a pedophile to "silence her" but in reality she silenced these people by harassing them.
As for the "faggot slur", she used the homophobic slur in a Jack Off Jill song called Nazi Halo, and it appears to very clearly be a mocking remark towards Jeordie. Upon facing criticism, she denied that "faggot" even was a homophobic slur and played the victim. Here in this tweet she is once again seen portraying the situation as such that all of the hate towards her was completely unprovoked and irrational. This is gaslighting.
This is a behavior that's seen from her often, and based on this, what I said about the "no one was willing to stand up for me" thing possibly being that she was making very serious false claims that people didn't take seriously isn't exactly a far fetched idea.
I have also received some messages from people expressing their opinions and sharing stories. One of them is very interesting. This, anonymous by request, message came from an account that does not follow me, we don't have any mutual followers, and at the time I had not posted for weeks, and this person did not follow anyone in the Manson "community" nor did they seem to be invested in the case discussions publicly. It was simply someone's personal account. (Other identifiers I will not share, this is just for a bit of background and to tell that it was not an anonymous account nor was it a fan account, there was a name and a face.) This made me kind of get the feeling that this person had heard of my site from someone and sought it out to contact me,
Of course I don't know if this is true. you decide what you believe and I'm not claiming this to be 100% confirmed information, this is just very interesting, as I personally don't have a problem believing this at all. (Do note here that this is not anyone directly accusing Jessicka of anything, this is an opinion of someone after reading her claims, the person in question is not claiming to have witnessed anything or accusing her of anything.)
It goes along with Jessicka's social media behavior. She is constantly looking for an argument, and when she gets one, she turns around to play the victim, as can be seen in the before mentioned situation with her faking a story about having a terrifying stalker who's extorting her and threatening to kill her, simply because i did not stop talking as she requested.
Can be seen from the way she talks about Michelle Siwy too, she is provoking on purpose to get a reaction, something to stick to, and when she doesn't get it, she will try something else or go after someone else.
This also goes along with Jeordie's general behavior. He has never reacted to Jessicka, he has never interacted with her at least publicly after the 90's, he has never even mentioned her name after the 90's. This does kind of look like a situation of reactive abuse vs a person doing their best to avoid it.
Considering this, a couple quotes from 90's Jessicka. Not only does she absolutely not come across as fragile and "subservient to men" as she claimed to have been, she pretty much describes reactively abusive behavior in there. It could then again just be her being edgy, she was like that back then, but it is basically her saying she's trying how far she can push someone and then pretending it didn't happen.
Here's this quote from an interview in Seconds, 1998:
Seconds: What's your current fetish?
Jessicka: I've had a cutting fetish for a little while. I've been really into just putting little nicks - little nail marks - on people, even people I don't know. I've been doing it a lot lately. You know, rubbing against somebody and seeing how far I can cut and then pretending like I didn't know what I was doing. I'm always pulling and picking. Pulling the hairs out of people's legs, picking open sores - that's my everyday life. If someone's going to let me pick a scab, I will, If that's a fetish, then so be it.
"Nobody's bothered me yet, and nobody will - if they know what's good for 'em," she said. "Guys have never scared me, and they never will. On the other hand, I know a few guys who I may have scared a little bit. That's just part of the fun."
These quotes are quite different than what she would like you to believe she was like in her 2017 statement. It is confusing for an old fan to read for various reasons. I'm not saying they are conclusive evidence or anything, these are, after all just edgy interview quotes. They do, however, portray a very different demeanor than what she now years later wants us to believe she was like.
And just, if it really was the case that Jeordie was sickly jealous and controlling and hard to break up with, then why is it Jessicka, and only Jessicka that has kept bringing up this relationship, commenting on Jeordie, posting throwback pictures and including him in everything? (read Nightmares? page for more) Shouldn't it be the other way around. But try and find Jeordie mentioning Jessicka on social media or talking about her in an interview.
Why hasn't he ever mentioned her? Why isn't he posting throwback photos and mentioning her in his website biography etc? Well, Jessicka supporters could probably argue that he'd want to avoid responsibility. But what it could also be, could be a thing called gray rock. Gray rock is a term in discussion of narcissistic abuse, and it's meant to portray a method of avoiding abuse from a narcissistic abuser in a situation where you're not able to cut all contact completely due to family or business relations.
In gray rocking, as the name, you "become as uninteresting as a gray rock" as in, you aren't responsive at all to the abuser. You don't give them anything, no reactions, you don't tell them anything about yourself, basically, give them nothing to stick to. If Jeordie has been doing this all this time, trying his best to not give Jessicka anything to work with, hasn't interacted with her or responded to her, it could explain why she's been all over his and his girlfriends' social medias, all over his interviews, etc. He hasn't given her anything, so her stories are all public info twisted. She couldn't provoke him so she had to look for things to talk about.
It at least wouldn't surprise me, it's known that she seeks out this Jeordie conversation too and has been seen starting an argument on social media under years old tweets, demanding apologies from the person, who'd basically already forgotten all about it anyway.
It seems in the overall picture, if you take a look at Jessicka's aggressive and manipulative behavior, Lisa's statement, as well as Jeordie's complete silence and unresponsiveness towards her throughout pretty much his entire career, it seems very possible that what actually went down was that she was abusive towards him but if he reacted to it, she would twist the situation around as if she were the victim. There is really no other way to get rid of a person like this than to completely ignore and never acknowledge or mention them again.
Can say from personal experience, there is a person in my life that I don't acknowledge or respond to anymore, for the very reason that no matter what I say, it will be used against me. An example I could give is something like this: I get a harassing phonecall where I'm screamed at, called a stupid whore, I try to keep calm but end up raising my voice. This person responds by acting as if I had in fact called them to harass them and scream at them, acts as if my reaction was completely irrational and unhinged, tells others a similar story. This Jessicka vs Jeordie drama just looks very familiar. Part of why it interests me I guess is that it's helped me process some of my own personal experiences, helps in gaining trust to my own perspective and keeping my own mind, never ever giving in to manipulation ever again because I recognize it.
See also: the page on Long Hard Road Out Of Hell book in the allegations-timeline section. Where Jessicka's mention in LHROOH is discussed, this has some details that could also point to the direction that Jessicka may have abused Jeordie.
When did they date? Also some details that are interesting.